Empowering Parents: Nurturing Inclusive Education with DJ Nicholson

Looking for practical ways to support your child's learning journey, especially if they have unique learning needs? If so, our latest episode featuring DJ Nicholson, an experienced educational coach, and advocate for children with disabilities, is a must-listen! DJ is passionate about creating engaging learning environments and empowering parents to become strong advocates for their kids.

She discusses ways parents can use their time off work efficiently and access resources to support their children's education best. If you are a parent or passionate about education, this candid discussion with DJ is not to be missed. Tune in, learn, and get empowered!

DJ Nicholson
Educational Mentor | Trainer | Inclusion Specialist

Schedule a meeting:
inclusiveology.com
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Transcript

Cindy: 0:07

Welcome back to another episode of Let Me Interrupt. So, as you may have heard last episode, we are kicking off our season two with really amazing guests, and today is just an example of what is to come. I want to hand it over to Melissa to roll out the red carpet for our amazing guests today.

Melissa : 0:28

Yeah, delighted to be here with you, cindy, our phenomenal guest DJ. This episode is going to be near and dear to my heart, for sure, and I'm sure we're going to touch on that. But to all of our listeners we want to welcome DJ Nicholson, who is a 28 year old veteran teacher, educational coach and trainer with a lifelong passion for education and ensuring that children with disabilities and learning differences are engaged and supported in their educational environment. Dj superpowers include creating unique learning options for children, problem solving for success and building empowered learners. She now coaches parents to advocate for their children's best learning through tools and strategies for engagement, accessibility and flexibility. When she is not engaged with her career passion, she is volunteering with a pug rescue, which I definitely want to touch on and her pug rescue group, mentoring young teachers and doing yoga. So, dj Nicholson, welcome to the podcast.

DJ Nicholson : 1:29

Thank you so much for having me.

Melissa : 1:30

Oh, we're delighted to have you.

Cindy: 1:32

Yes, so let's just jump in and tell us a little bit you know about yourself beyond the bio, and what motivated you to focus on children with disabilities and learning differences.

DJ Nicholson : 1:43

So I really feel like my love for children with disabilities and learning differences really started when I was a little kid.

DJ Nicholson : 1:50

You know, I had a sibling that had some different types of disabilities, and I had some experiences when I was in the first grade with children on the playground. This was back in the mid seventies and children were coming out of a state institution and they were coming onto my elementary school campus and they were on the playground with us, but that was the only time that we ever saw them, you know talking with with us on the playground. We didn't see them in the library or the cafeteria or any of our classes. And so you know, knowing that was in the mid seventies when I fast forward through, you know, 20 years of teaching and six, seven, eight years of coaching and training, and in 2023, we're still having some of the same conversations about needing kids to be included in learning, whatever that looks like, and we can really I mean my goodness finally move away from these exclusionary options that we have for kids, because I truly believe that every child can be included in learning. It's up to us, as adults, to figure out how to get in there.

Melissa : 3:02

I love that. I said in the bio that this podcast is kind of near and dear to my heart, you know, and Cindy, I will let you kind of you know, share what you are most comfortable with. But Cindy and I have been many conversations about the learning abilities of our own children. I have a son off to college and when he was two I didn't know, I couldn't envision him reading a book and I questioned many nights how he was going to even learn how to tie his shoes. He was placed on the spectrum at a very young age. We entered early intervention, super early, which was fundamental right for his successes.

Melissa : 3:43

I think that having an advocate for your child is huge. So I feel like the roles are a little bit reversed. You know, my son has come really full circle. He's doing well, he's self-sufficient, driving girlfriend, college, you know all these great things. But this podcast, I feel it's going to resonate with someone who may have some of those worries and those doubts. I know Cindy and I've had numerous conversations, so I'm going to kind of pause there, take a little pulse, check, see if you have any thoughts around what you know, what I have to share.

DJ Nicholson : 4:14

Well, first of all, thank you for just opening up and sharing the success story of your son, and I think that that speaks volumes to parents that it is possible.

DJ Nicholson : 4:29

We have to believe that learning is possible, social growth is possible and the world really the world is their oyster, as they used to say. I mean, there's just so much potential but we have to know how to best support and I applaud you for early intervention because that's really where it starts. And so, whether your child is two or three or however old, the younger we can get systems in place, supports and resources in place, the better off they're going to be with learning and independence and all of that. So I think it just speaks volumes, just that you know you're, you're. You were worried at two, but then here he is, you know off to college and you know like kind of live in his life Well, and I think you know I think I don't see myself as a traditional advocate because I see my role as empowering parents, so they have the tools to advocate for their child, so they are fully immersed in everything they need to know to bring their information about their child to the IEP table.

Melissa : 5:44

The term diagnosis is scary, right, scary, whether it's a diagnosis of cancer or diagnosis of a spectrum disorder for a child, not to mention if you're doing it as a single parent. For me, single mom, 100% working, nurse, working, shift work, you know doing that hustle and you know trying to get him to his early intervention, picking him up from daycare, it was a really I mean I have to kind of celebrate, you know what I've, what I've really been through and endured, and I mean I celebrate him. But for single parents who are listening, it is tough. So it's kind of the segue into the next question about work and how to approach employers who may not understand that you might need additional time off from work and what that really looks like.

DJ Nicholson : 6:36

So I think there's definitely going to be times when parents need to take time off from work, but I think the best way to manage that time is to have a person or a place that you can go and get the bulk of your information. So I've had some experiences with parents where they are overwhelmed, they're stressed and they're freaking out and they get on the internet and they start searching and searching and searching and next thing you know they're meeting with, you know, this psychologist and this therapist and this person and they're just all over the place. So that can be very time consuming, very overwhelming. But I think that if parents have like, if they had someone you know, not me, but like me or me that is kind of a one stop shop when it comes to looking at learning possibilities and learning options that then they can spend that time learning from a professional. But then they have the knowledge when they go into an IEP meeting that they are fully equipped, that they can go in there with confidence.

DJ Nicholson : 7:52

The meeting does not have to be, you know, three and four hours I've sat in somewhere. They're that long because parents are overwhelmed and they want. Parents want to take the time to learn. So when you're in the meeting and in those situations where you know they're, everyone at the table is talking about your child and you want this positive connection with everyone at the table, you want there to be a positive outcome and you want to capture all the things that your child needs. So that's not the time to be learning, learning new things. You know what I mean. Like parents need to be equipped ahead of time, but equipped in a way where you are getting like tried and true, factual information and you're not out there searching the waters. I mean it's, it's murky.

Melissa : 8:42

It is murky. I heard an advocate, one, say let's not call it disability, let's call it capability, and that's just just gives me shivers to think about that. I mean, you know you go into these meetings and, cindy, you know in the beginning you feel that the focus is on really the disability and you want your child, in all terms, to be normal, and so you know my heart goes out to you. But this is why this podcast is really really crucial, crucial.

Cindy: 9:18

And that's such a great tip because, I mean, it's such a different way of thinking about it. I mean, every time I've gone to like a doctor or a specialist, I go with let me let them tell me what it is. And hearing like you know that that is not the time you want to come. You know prepared, you want to come with what, what questions you really want to get to like even with just simple things, like my son had an eye infection the other day and we went to the doctor and you know he was explaining the difference between a bacterial and a viral and the information that we got there, while he was also screaming because he didn't want to be sitting down or touched. We walked away and you know my husband had one version and I had the other version and it just didn't. It makes sense that you're right. Like that may not be the most conducive to getting everything that you might need.

DJ Nicholson : 10:17

Well, and I like what Melissa said to about you know, switching up the word disability, and I agree with you 100%. So I, if that's that is interesting, because it can be. It's a very sensitive word. Some people in the disability community like that word, some people don't, some people are offended. So I go back and forth between capability, learning, difference, disability, unique abilities, special skills, like whatever it is, and so here's my take on that.

DJ Nicholson : 10:50

Every single person on the planet is different. We're all different and that's that's part of what makes us beautiful as as humans, as we get to be different and so it's just a matter of figuring out you know what works for everybody, so you can. You can call it a disability, but just because someone needs, like, an opportunity for more movement or needs to take a break or needs you know different tools in the classroom, that's not. I mean, yes, it's a. It's a. It's a disability in the way that the world kind of looks at it, but it really is. It's just a different way of approaching learning. It's a different way of focusing. We all have our little things that we do.

Cindy: 11:37

Yeah, yeah, and right now that you, right before we jump into the next question, I thought immediately to you know, the world changes, right, like it changes, and the different expectations, and even just the country we live in, like education is done completely different in other countries and some work better than others, some are more hands on outside and you have that movement. But I just had a flashback to and I know Ben's grandmother is not listening so I'll say it you know, just when he was like six months or like he was walking, was probably a year, and he was running, he wanted to touch everything, and she's like why can't he just sit down? You know, because another baby that came to visit her just sat there, and so it was like everyone's different and that's right, like we have to be open to the differences that people have, you know, all as adults and as children.

DJ Nicholson : 12:41

Well and knowing to that.

DJ Nicholson : 12:43

You know, children are children and one of the beautiful things about them is an incredible sense of curiosity and a need to move and a need to explore their environment.

DJ Nicholson : 12:55

And so I mean, just if I can share this little like anecdote A couple of years ago I was I was an instructional coach in my district down here in Florida for many years, and a couple of years ago I was working at a school and I was talking to the principal about the way that her kindergartners walked in line, and so it was kind of the sort of a different policy that you know we want to have, like bubble gum and bunny tails, meaning like mouth should look like with big bubbles in them and hands go behind their backs like holding onto a little bunny tail.

DJ Nicholson : 13:31

And she, she said to her kindergarten teachers like that needs to stop. We are not training children for the military, we are just trying to get them from the classroom to the library. That's all you got to do If we're not trying to get make every child do exactly the same thing. If they want to walk in pairs and hold hands, let them. If they want to skip, let them have control. But let them like, let them, they need the time to wiggle and move around and I can't. Yeah, she now works in a lovely private school.

Cindy: 14:19

And I wish, you know, I wish that a lot of educators and a lot of places had that same mindset. I can't say that it's not scary to think about, I mean, with everything else going in schools, but I think that's the side of that. It is also kind of like scared to think about having to fit to a norm Even now, right. And as we think about this, I want to touch on some barriers, because you know I don't want to be a negative Nancy here, but you know, there and as a parent you immediately think of, like here's all the negative things that could happen that I have to prepare for, right. And so can you give us a little bit of insight of on what you're hearing from parents? Is it pertains to some of the barriers that they're seeing, that they're maybe pre anticipating, so you kind of work with them to mitigate that and any advice around those types of barriers?

DJ Nicholson : 15:23

Okay. So barriers are one of my favorite things to talk about and I always start my barrier conversation with children are never, ever barriers. No matter what the situation, the child is not a barrier. So it really is up to us as adults, as parents and professionals and educators, to figure out the best way to remove barriers so kids can really be included in learning. So barriers can be items and objects in the classroom, they can be people and they can be spaces. So I'll give you some examples of each of those. So an example of an item or an object is really. I'll just say we need to add some items or objects in. So if we have a kiddo that's struggling with reading and they're losing their place every time they're reading a passage in a book that maybe they need like a reading ruler or a reading tracker to help them kind of track down the page, that is an object that we can use, a tool that removes that barrier of him getting lost. So we can also eliminate that negative verbiage from a teacher or other kids like, oh, he keeps getting lost, he doesn't know where he is, he needs reminders of what we're supposed to be doing, but yet if you give him a tool, a tracker. It would be really helpful for lots of kids right To give them a tracker to track down the page. That helps remove that barrier of getting lost and could wind up improving comprehension.

DJ Nicholson : 17:07

Just like a chair could be considered a barrier. So all schools have these. I call them the blue plastic chair. So it's either like the blue plastic chair, the black one or the brown one where everyone sits in the same chair. So we do have kids that have a difficult time sitting in one place and sitting still for a long period of time. So if we remove the barrier of that uncomfortable chair and we give them another option of maybe sitting on like some kind of flexible seating, like a gymnastic ball or a mushroom seat, or let them sit on the floor or stand up for a little bit, we can remove that barrier of being unfocused People as a barrier and that can be sensitive for some people. But I have seen it where the barrier to learning becomes an adult. That kind of hovers over the child to keep them on track or keep them focused or to whisper something in their ear. So sometimes an adult can be a barrier if it's a situation where they're enabled or there's like a learned helplessness kind of happening. I would rather see an adult show a child how to use some tools and other things that remove that barrier altogether and remove the need for that adult to kind of hover over them.

DJ Nicholson : 18:42

And then the third barrier is a barrier of your educational environment, your space in which you're learning. Like is there room for kids to move around and be comfortable when they're working? I mean, I don't know about you, but it makes a difference where I work and where I'm comfortable, like I need my stuff around with me and I need to feel comfortable in my seat so I can be focused. And so if it means that I work better sitting on the floor, sit on the floor. If a child works better in a small group or by himself or sitting outside. I mean, there's all kinds of ways to remove barriers and there's hundreds of educational tools that professionals use I use to explain to parents how we can put tools and supports in place that are all considered they're assistive technology tools, whether it's like a high tech tool like a computer or a laptop program or like the things I mentioned, like a reading ruler or a highlighter tape or something like that that matches alongside the accommodations in the IEP.

Melissa : 20:10

We've talked about the importance of early intervention, why it's important, why it's important at a super young age. Well, let's talk about the gaps over summer. For my son in those early school years he never required any type of summer support, which was fine. But kids can tend to backslide during the summer and or holidays. So talk to us, talk to our listeners, about what support looks like from a parent who doesn't necessarily want to make it feel like lesson time. Give us some practical tips that parents can engage with their children where it doesn't actually feel like a lesson or homework or a continuation of their day. I mean kids can get overwhelmed in a six hour school day where they've got multiple disciplines coming into the classroom, you've got OTPT speech and by the time they get home they're worn out.

DJ Nicholson : 21:05

They are. So wow, you just. I just feel like you just asked like five questions. I want to try to capture all that. First of all, I'm a huge believer and we've got to cool it on the homework with little ones. We've just got to cool it, like when you're in elementary school and you've been in school all day long, the last thing you want to do is go home and do like another worksheet, another math page. Let's just keep it simple and have kids engaged in reading, whether they're reading themselves or parents are reading. That's the most important thing to support kids in reading. So let's do that.

DJ Nicholson : 21:46

So another way to engage kids whether it's in the summer and I'll add a little bit more to that in a second but after school is to make learning or learning review or whatever you want to do. Make it fun, like have that, you know, integrate music into it, play a game where they're up and moving around, like if they have to say, like spelling words, if you're working on a spelling word, review that for every letter they're hopping or they're jumping up and down and you turn it into some kind of a game. So just to make it fun and don't feel so stuck in the. You know you need to sit at the table and do your homework. And if you're a parent that's really busy and you're working while your child is home doing homework, or you're cooking dinner in the kitchen while they're working on their homework, just know the most important thing is if they have homework, you want them to do the best they can on that homework, not necessarily be so restricted to. You know you have to sit at the table Because I tell parents you know sometimes you're not going to get both you can't have them do homework and get them to sit at the table. So if they want to lay on the floor, great. They want to lay in a beanbag chair, great. But the ideal scenario for me is no homework and if there's something fun that can happen instead. There's endless things to do at home, whether it's, you know, doing a scavenger hunt around the house and you're looking for, you know everything that you can find. That starts with the letter B in five minutes. You know just things like that that are fun. It's very family focused.

DJ Nicholson : 23:51

The other thing that you asked about was summer. So in extended school year, esy is different all over the nation, in every district, every county. It fluctuates depending on where you are, but if you have a child with an individual education plan, an IEP, there's a lot of students that will qualify for extended year services. So whether that's learning supports or speech or OT, those services and supports are available during the summer as well, and a lot of schools do have, you know, summer programming. That looks different, it's a little more fun. I know there's some districts down here in Florida where it's just like a science camp theme and it's just fun. It's much more fun than regular school, regular school year.

Cindy: 24:45

Yeah, as I want to just reflect on some of the things that you said, because you dropped a lot of really great information.

Cindy: 24:53

But the biggest thing that I'm realizing and I feel like I'm opening my eyes to, is that our kids are people like us.

Cindy: 25:02

Like the same way we have this podcast, because of the hurdles in the workplace and all of the other things, they are very much living a similar type of structure in that I don't want to work late, they don't want to do homework late, like I have this comfy chair and I have my whole, like you said, my own setup, and yet here we are expecting them to be in this gloomy classroom.

Cindy: 25:35

I mean, I know some teachers make it fun, but I totally, like it changed my mindset to think, like, can you imagine us doing our work that we do in that classroom setting? Like sitting next to all of your coworkers in this like hard chair all lies on you, you can't get up, you have to raise your hand to go to the bathroom. I mean, I get, there's certain things for order, but when you start thinking about it, as, like you know, the children are just like us, adults that have wants and needs and, if anything, the fact that we expect them to have more control, like more self-control than like some of us as adults it's insane, but it's true, and a lot of what you just said is about.

DJ Nicholson : 26:25

You know that self-control really is self-regulation for kids. Like, how do we support them in their own self-regulation so they're comfortable and they're settled and situated? I mean we can do that for ourselves as adults. The majority of adults that I know know how to self-regulate. Like I can get up if I need to, I have my water right here, I have my pencil that I like right here. I have my foot up on a footstool because that's how I like to sit. You know we're able to do that as adults, but for kids we don't always do that, and so that's why sometimes, when kids can't self-regulate and there's a tremendous amount of control and you've got to sit there, you can't go to the bathroom, you can't get up, you can't get a drink, you can't do this, can't, can't, can't Then a lot of that turns into what some adults see as well.

DJ Nicholson : 27:27

Kids get frustrated and they've shut down, and then adults see that as behavior and it's not. It's not behavior, and that's something that I talk to teachers about too. That just because you have a kid that's frustrated does not mean that now we suddenly have to have a behavior plan now too. Like no frustration is. It's a kind of communication, like he doesn't have words to explain how he's feeling, so he's frustrated, he's gonna put his head up. He's gonna put his head down. He's gonna, like, slink under the desk. I remember slinking under the desk when I was in high school English, because I got called on and I was super shy and I just slid, not all the way under, but like I was on my way because I didn't know what to do with my feelings, you know.

Melissa : 28:22

I see that as an adult now, like to me, sometimes I can be overstimulated if there's too many people in the hallway. I prefer a door that's shut to an office versus open where I hear all that external kind of noise. I need white noise to sleep. I need the vacuum cleaner to. We all have our little quirks. We all have our little quirks. So you have dropped a ton of information on this podcast and I know that someone who's listening is gonna have a takeaway. Right, a diagnosis of any type of you know, learning need, disability is overwhelming. It's overwhelming. As you said, there are a lot of resources. If you could provide one takeaway, one gem that you feel that all parents, whether single or a good support system, should have in their back pocket, what would that be?

DJ Nicholson : 29:18

Find your person that is going to support you on this journey, so you're not out on the internet, you're not questioning whether or not you're doing the right thing. Find a person that you can rely on, that you can ask questions of and that's available to you as a resource.

Cindy: 29:40

And on that note, can you tell us a little bit about inclusivology some of the work that you do? As you mentioned earlier, that person is someone like you, and where can people find someone like you? Where do they start? Like you said, there's a lot on the internet. How does someone connect with you or find someone like you in their area?

DJ Nicholson : 30:07

So inclusivology the name literally means the study of inclusion, because it's important to include every child in learning. So what I do is I either work with parents one to one or in a small group, depending on what is the best fit for them. And so, working one to one, we do deep dives into all the educational planning documents, the IEP, and we look at all the things that are working really well and then we look at the things that might need to be beefed up a little bit and we wanna make sure that everything that's in those documents connects and matches to the benefit of the child. That's important. And then, along the journey working with me, then parents they're growing in their vocabulary, they're learning how to ask questions, they're feeling more like they understand exactly what should be provided for their child, and so then they're able to ask for some of these supports and services during the IEP meeting.

DJ Nicholson : 31:14

So the bulk of what I do with inclusivology is supporting parents. I also do some down here in Florida. I just do some local teacher trainings, but I also do workshops. At least once a month I do an online workshop and so I have a Facebook page called Inclusivology and I also have a website called inclusivologycom so people can find me there, and if you need someone that's local to your area, I work virtually and I also work locally, so I kind of support the United States in this work. If you are looking for someone, I would look for someone that is an educational advocate or an educational coach.

Melissa : 31:58

I want to say a big thank you, dj. I wish that I had had a coach in place when I had questions. I remember leaving that doctor's office 16 years ago, feeling a myriad of emotions, embarrassment, confusion, fear, all of those things. So if this podcast can reach one person at the precise moment of a diagnosis, then we've done our job here at Let Me Interrupt. So what a great way to kick off. Season two is such just great education. Thank you really. Thank you so much for what you do for your community, for the nation, and really thank you so very much for what you do Takes us a very special person Well.

DJ Nicholson : 32:50

I love what I do, so thank you very much Awesome.

Cindy: 32:54

Well, on that note, we want to say again thank you so much into our listeners, as always. Just keep interrupting and make sure to follow and check on the notes for any updates and then hopefully we'll have you back again in the future. Dj, I really enjoyed our conversation.

DJ Nicholson : 33:16

Yeah, we'd love that.

Melissa : 33:17

DJ all the best, thank you.

DJ Nicholson : 33:19

You're welcome, thank you.